Bogen 3421 / Manfrotto 393 Gimbal head

[Mitcon]

Just wondering how many of us own/use this head, your thoughts and opinions on it please. Also Pro's and Con's in actual use if any, thinking of maybe grabbing one in the New year if they are any good. Also can you adjust the amount of friction on this or is it factory set ?

[roli_bark]

I'm told that Gimbal type Head is good for wildlife [pan, tilt, and leave as is...], because of perfect "Center-Of-Gravity" balance !

But for Macro work [for example] , not so so....

[Mitcon]

Yeah I know what it's meant to be good for, just wondering in real world use how good it is at this. No stores around here carry it for me to have a look at in-person, thats why I was wondering what people that used it thought of it. I wouldn't think of using it for macro work lol, I have 2 other tripods with focussing rails already on them for that kind of thing.

Mostly so far I shoot hand-held, but I find it very difficult at 1000mm and I'm thinking of trying a Gimbal type as I either have or used to have the other types and wanted something different. I know Gimbal is the way I want to go, just trying to see if this Manfrotto/Bogan head is good enough. Trying to not have to pay for a Wimberley or Kirk if I don't need to as I don't think it will get a ton of use as I will still mostly shoot hand-held (would prefer to use tripod/monopod but I just can't get/use them in some of the locations I shoot)

[yellow_belly]

I have the 393 and found it to be one of the few 'bargains' in the photography world, it is worth every penny (cent?) IMHO. Just 2 points, the first is that it is BIIIIIIG, the second is that the rubber grip (if you get one you will know what I mean) comes off very easy so I drilled a small hole in mine where there is a recessed screw for adjustment, and then glued it in place to prevent losing it :)

Terry

[formula4speed]

Check out shots from LiquidStone on here. I believe he uses the Sigmonster 300-800mm with this head and if it can support that it can probably hold anything. I'm considering picking one up when I buy some longer glass.

[liquidstone]

Hi Mitcon,

I'm pasting here a short user report I posted at DPR way back. After thousands of pics in the field, I haven't changed my opinion and I'm still very satisfied with the performance of the Manfrotto 3421.

All my pics taken using the Sigmonster was with the 3421, including the indigo-banded kingfisher I recently posted, whose shutter speeds range from 0.5 to 0.8 sec (with MLU) at 800 mm.

Some posters earlier asked me in the 300-800 DG threads my impressions on this gimbal head, a cheaper alternative to the more expensive full Wimberley.

Here's how the 3421 looks:

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/41790482/original (http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/41790482/original)

After several field uses of the gimbal head, and hundreds of long shots with it, I guess I've formed my decision whether I'm happy with the 3421 or need to upgrade to the full Wimberley.

I was initially a bit disappointed with the 3421. While it worked smoothly and flawlessly in panning shots, it had a slight play/wobble in its panning base. I mitigated this problem by placing my left hand on the lens (also to reduce mirror/shutter slap), while my left wrist rested on top of one of the U-legs (to steady the play/wobble).

Then I found out that Manfrotto factory-set the panning knob resistance to
minimum, probably for use in lighter lenses. So I got myself a 2.5 mm Allen key (not supplied with the gimbal head) to loosen the locking screw of the panning knob.

Once the lock screw was loosened, I was able to tighten the panning knob so resistance is just right for the monster lens. The slight play/wobble is gone, and it now works like a dream. I can now consistently shoot shake-free pics with the combo at 1600 mm and as low as 1/100 sec shutter speed.

My longest shot with this gimbal head is a 4525 mm attempt at Jupiter taken at 1/30 sec. As every astronomical shooter knows, any slight vibration with such focal length at such a dim target will result into a featureless disc.

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/42093034 (http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/42093034)

Same 4525 mm focal length at the moon, 1/40 sec:

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/42093141/original

I guess I won't be a full Wimberly customer for a long time. The 3421, once the panning knob is tightened to suit a specific lens, works very, very well, at a fraction of the cost of the full W.

Hope this helps,

Romy

[Mitcon]

Thanks Terry and everyone for the input.

Romy, excelent stuff mate, thank you greatly for that. Puts my mind at ease and will be happy enough to just go ahead and order one in the New year now. I've used the Wimberley, and seen the side-kick (and a lens go over sideways with that one :( ). Not seen the Kirk's but don't think after what you said I need to lol. Looks to be a bit bulky but not a big deal I guess. I only want it for use with the Bigma when I throw Tcon's on it or if I use a 600mm, nothing the weight or length of the Sigmonster.

[Mitcon]

Well I did it, I placed an order for the Manfrotto 393/Bogen 3421. The order came in today and I went down and picked it up right away. It is a little bulky in size but it's a tad lighter than I had expected so I was pretty happy with that. Not going to have much chance to use it right away but I did have a play and it certainly seems to perform very well and as intended.

Many thanks for your input everyone, I'm very pleased with it indeed and looks great on the new CF tripod.:D

[jacobsen1]

Ok, quick stupid question from the Noob... How do you attach it to the tripod? I'm assuming it is the head and it goes straight onto the center section...

Ben

[Mitcon]

Hi Ben, welcome to the forums.

You are correct, it just screw onto the centre column same as any other tripod head. I don't think Manfrotto even refer to it as a head. I think they call it a long lens bracket or support. Anyway, you were correct in it's fitting to the tripod.

[convergent]

Is there any way to use this with an Arca Swiss plate? Can you replace the mount with a different quick release, or are you locked into the Bogen proprietary deal here? I use my 400 2.8 mostly on a monopod, and I would prefer not to be taking the plate off of it to go to tripod use. This seems like just what I need if it can work with Arca Swiss type plates.

[CyberDyneSystems]

You can replace the QR system,.

I intitally did this,. depending on your QR clamp you may need to do some drilling,. but just two screws hold the manfrotto unit on.. and the reciving end is threaded right into the gimble. Youll want "lock tite" of course. It's a pretty easy retrofit.

HOWEVER... I ended up instead,. attaching the Arca style QR Clamp (an RRS unit) to the Mnafrotto QR plate using a pair of screws and some locktite.. this means the Manfrotto QR plate which is "captive" even when loose for adjusting,. works as a sort of adjustable rail for aid in balancing the lens. I find I need this extra level of front to back adustemnt for some of my large lenses when using T-cons/ extensions and the 1D. On top of that the adjustment with the Mnfrotto is far smoother (it was desingned to be a focus rail initially and later adopted to be a QR on this gimble head) than the arca is for fron to back adjustment,. and as mentioned it is captive,. so in the feild loosening it to adjust deos not run the risk of dumping your lens in any circumstance,. where as loosening the arca for a balance adjustment is also losening the thing that holds you lens on...

Imagine the weight/balance difference at the rear of the lens when going from a 20D with no t-con to a 1D with t/cons and tubes.. !! You need a lot of front back adjustment to keep things in abalnce and even the long 6" Arca plates don't offer enough transit.

[convergent]

Thanks for the thorough response. I hadn't thought of that solution, and I'm sure it will probably be just the ticket. Unfortunately (I guess that's a relative term), I was talked into a mint used Wimberly version 1 gimbal head by my camera shop. I saved $100 off of new, and hopefully if I decided its too much for me, I won't get hurt reselling it.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Well,. that's not unfortunate,. that's a deal on a better option! :)

[cspratt]

A smaller gimbal type head is the the MONGOOSE M-262 which is recommended for intermediate telephoto lenses such as the Canon 100-400. Cheaper than the Wimberly but very good for the price. Arthur Morris (Birds as Art) sells it and recommends it highly.

[convergent]

Well,. that's not unfortunate,. that's a deal on a better option! :) Ha, ha... well its all relative. There is no doubt that the Wimberly is the best option, but I won't need it that much... so tough to justify investing that much money in the head/legs. I use the 400 most of the time on a monopod.

One thing I've concluded in all of this is that I need to get off the Bogen proprietary stuff and standarize on Arca Swiss. Unfortunately I have a lot of gear that is not Arca Swiss at this point.

[convergent]

As a follow-up.... I received the Wimberly Version 1 Gimbal head and love the thing. I just bought a new center pole for my 3021N and went with that for now. The legs are a little lighter (and shorter) than I'd like for the 400 2.8, but I don't need to use it that much so it worked for now. The gimbal is amazing. I've never used a ballhead, so the idea of just moving the lens from one position to another and having it stay there, without touching any knobs, is new to me. I'm convinced.

[reewik]

Older thread But I just picked one up... Any1 have a suggestion for a flashbracket to fit?

[ShutterFever]

Hey Romy,

I saw your photo of the 3421, it look neat.

I am thinking about to order this 3421 from BH but you said "The slider plate came free with the 3421"

I need them for support my new EF 300mm F2.8 with 1DMIIN for surf photos.

I want to make sure that I understand before I order it. You means Bogen 3273 is already set up on this 3421including with 3272 if I plan to order 3421 or I have to order seperate 3421 and 3273?

Example here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/5565.jpg

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/5566.jpg

[CyberDyneSystems]

The quick release and one plate come with the head.
The second picture above shows what is included exactly. (the cork one is the older version of the plate alone)

If you have more than one lens to use, you should grab another of those plates in the first pic.

[ShutterFever]

The quick release and one plate come with the head.
The second picture above shows what is included exactly. (the cork one is the older version of the plate alone)

If you have more than one lens to use, you should grab another of those plates in the first pic.

Thank u alot for answered my question!:cool:

Yes, good idea for me to buy extra one plate for my big 70-200 too.

[ShutterFever]

Also, I want to ask another question about Bogen 3421 / Manfrotto 393 Gimbal head again.

I wonder if Bogen 3421 / Manfrotto 393 Gimbal head can install on my new Dynatran AT-CF994 tripod's top without problem?

Because, I checked my AT-CF994 tripod's top with a screw bolt, which seem little bigger. I am not sure if AT-CF994 tripod's top screw bolt and bogen tripod's top screw bolt are both same size?

[Mitcon]

Sould be the same size fitting and work no problems, I have the AT-CF94 legs (same legs as you have but without the ATH-H96 ball head) and mine fitted straight on.

[ShutterFever]

Sould be the same size fitting and work no problems, I have the AT-CF94 legs (same legs as you have but without the ATH-H96 ball head) and mine fitted straight on.

Mitcon, thank u for info. I am going to check them at big camera store in LA later this weekend.:cool: